Curse

Zaganher Deathbane · Feb 17, 2008, 11:42 AM // 11:42

I guess the reason why there are no firearms in GW is because, story wise this will somehow make bows inferior. If I can use a firearm then why would I bother using a bow? Just my opinion

[M]agna_[C]arta · Feb 17, 2008, 01:26 PM // 13:26

Cause Bows can can do Barrage Attacks(Firearms can't Rapidfire, ATM) and Refire rate is alot faster^^.
Bullets can't Barrage cause it only shoots up to 1 or two Bullets at a time.
While a bows can hold up to 6 arrows.
And Flintlocks have slow Refire Rate so you can't do Rapidfire.

Check my post on how to ballance Bows with Guns.

Bows are Weaker but Faster, Guns are Stronger but Slower.
Ain't that the Traditional way of Ballancing 1 thing from another in most Games involving Fight.

Hollygen · Feb 17, 2008, 01:49 PM // 13:49

Almost any technological advance in the field of warfare is governed by a need to fill a hole. With guns it was the need to get a small lightweight projectile hitting an opponent at range. In our world that need was met by adapting previous methods of getting large, heavy projectiles to an opponant at range.

Within a fantasy setting is there the requirement for that technological advance? In WoW they felt yes. In GW they felt no.

Why do you need to create a new type of weapon when the tall girl in the skimpy outfit can create projectiles out of the air and them hitting an opponant at range. Development therefore swung to the improving of one existing tech (magic based) over another. Ele skills get updated whilst the turtle cannon lacks R+D time

BlackSephir · Feb 17, 2008, 02:23 PM // 14:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hollygen

Why do you need to create a new type of weapon when the tall girl in the skimpy outfit can create projectiles out of the air and them hitting an opponant at range. Development therefore swung to the improving of one existing tech (magic based) over another. Ele skills get updated whilst the turtle cannon lacks R+D time

Yup, that's a mystery. Play and try to create working POS that shots bullets that do tiny amount of damage compared to Fireball, when you have Fireballs right now.

If you want to play a mage that shoots from guns- http://www.terra-arcanum.com/

And stop raping GW's fantasy setting please.

Tunn Tavern · Feb 17, 2008, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Technology and magic don't mix well in games (in my opinion). No one can reasonably argue that a specific spell, or hex is "unrealistic". Everyone knows where various technologies fall in the technology advancement tree. I can imagine in GW7 using a tactical nuke to take out ranged spell casters

. Stick with swords and bows.

You can't see me · Feb 17, 2008, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by [M]agna_[C]arta

Cause Bows can can do Barrage Attacks(Firearms can't Rapidfire, ATM) and Refire rate is alot faster^^.
Bullets can't Barrage cause it only shoots up to 1 or two Bullets at a time.
While a bows can hold up to 6 arrows.
And Flintlocks have slow Refire Rate so you can't do Rapidfire.

Check my post on how to ballance Bows with Guns.

Bows are Weaker but Faster, Guns are Stronger but Slower.
Ain't that the Traditional way of Ballancing 1 thing from another in most Games involving Fight.

The way the golems operate is based on magic. The way fire arms operate is based on technological development. They're two different things and don't need to be ascociated within a game.

Unless you're speaking of implementing magic based firearms, which, again, is illogical because magic has far better channeled uses than to be manipulated into what we know as a firearm. If you like guns, CoD4 is for you.

Necrotic · Feb 17, 2008, 04:23 PM // 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by [M]agna_[C]arta

Cause Bows can can do Barrage Attacks(Firearms can't Rapidfire, ATM) and Refire rate is alot faster^^.
Bullets can't Barrage cause it only shoots up to 1 or two Bullets at a time.
While a bows can hold up to 6 arrows.
And Flintlocks have slow Refire Rate so you can't do Rapidfire.

Ever hear of a shotgun??? Also known as a blunderbuss in the early days.

Trust me...the very first thing done to improve the hit-to-miss ratio of early day muskets was to add more projectiles. Then they discovered the effects of rifling.

But really....why would you need a device that uses small explosive charges to throw projectiles at a target when you have a teammate who can make the targets burst into flames???

Stockholm · Feb 17, 2008, 04:27 PM // 16:27

Lol, can see it now.
Ele targets flintlock rifel with flare and gunpowder explodes and causes AOE dmg. ROFL

Izzy will nerf flair in 5 sec flat.

GloryFox · Feb 17, 2008, 04:32 PM // 16:32

I want my Assassin to have Duel Wielded .50 Desert Eagles. Is that a bad thing?

/evilgrin

zwei2stein · Feb 17, 2008, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Necrotic

Ever hear of a shotgun??? Also known as a blunderbuss in the early days.

Trust me...the very first thing done to improve the hit-to-miss ratio of early day muskets was to add more projectiles. Then they discovered the effects of rifling.

But really....why would you need a device that uses small explosive charges to throw projectiles at a target when you have a teammate who can make the targets burst into flames???

Its quite simple actually.

To do magic, you have to have talent and/or gift; study, and it has limits (you usually cant cast spells all day long or you would get exhausted.) Not to mention that magic is usually unreliable and you do what fireball backfire on you.

On the other hand, everyone can take gun, point in right direction and press trigger.

Everyone with minimal schooling can mix gunpowder and cast bullets, and those things can be done on pretty big scale even with medieval technology.

Smiths that can make guns wouyld be rarer, but they only need to do one gun per soldier and that sondier is set. Not to mention that fantasy smiths can do wonders (check out pretty much every GW weapon ... if someone has time and ability to create stuff like Exhalted aegis or Runic Shield, he can make simple gun too.)

In the end, you are better of with dozen Soldiers carying gun than one mage. Its cheaper and as effective. If you want to blow up stuff, grendades (ceramic vases filled with gunpowder) are there to do the job.

Mage ends up being pretty redundant ... or in some kind of special ops. But usually more fit for civil uses (cast protective wards in gunpowder factory to make sure one mistake does not blow up whole thing, help smiths maintain precise forge temperature, etc ...)

---

Eventually, regardless how cool magic is, it is gonna get outpaced by technology. Everyone can use technology. And it ends up more powerfull.

Stockholm · Feb 17, 2008, 05:02 PM // 17:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Its quite simple actually.

To do magic, you have to have talent and/or gift

Nope all you need is to make the right selection when you create your Ele

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

; study, and it has limits

No schools in GW

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Everyone with minimal schooling can mix gunpowder and cast bullets, and those things can be done on pretty big scale even with medieval technology.

See above.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

In the end, you are better of with dozen Soldiers carying gun than one mage.

Very few places in GW where you can have 12 people on the team.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Mage ends up being pretty redundant ... or in some kind of special ops. But usually more fit for civil uses (cast protective wards in gunpowder factory to make sure one mistake does not blow up whole thing, help smiths maintain precise forge temperature, etc ...)

can't see any players going for that roll, thats what NPC's are for.

---

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Eventually, regardless how cool magic is, it is gonna get outpaced by technology.

Not if the dev's don't put any technology in the game.

Perkunas · Feb 17, 2008, 05:05 PM // 17:05

The closest thing to firearms I would like to see in GW, is maybe a rapid fire crossbow. Range of shortbow, damage along the lines of 18-32, armor penetration +33%. Fire rate, 2/3 the speed of Shortbow. Speed buffs won't have any effects, conditions do. Max of 2 bolts per shot, single target.

You can't see me · Feb 17, 2008, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Its quite simple actually.

To do magic, you have to have talent and/or gift; study, and it has limits (you usually cant cast spells all day long or you would get exhausted.) Not to mention that magic is usually unreliable and you do what fireball backfire on you.

On the other hand, everyone can take gun, point in right direction and press trigger.

Everyone with minimal schooling can mix gunpowder and cast bullets, and those things can be done on pretty big scale even with medieval technology.

Smiths that can make guns would be rarer, but they only need to do one gun per soldier and that sondier is set. Not to mention that fantasy smiths can do wonders (check out pretty much every GW weapon ... if someone has time and ability to create stuff like Exalted aegis or Runic Shield, he can make simple gun too.)

In the end, you are better of with dozen Soldiers carying gun than one mage. Its cheaper and as effective. If you want to blow up stuff, grendades (ceramic vases filled with gunpowder) are there to do the job.

Mage ends up being pretty redundant ... or in some kind of special ops. But usually more fit for civil uses (cast protective wards in gunpowder factory to make sure one mistake does not blow up whole thing, help smiths maintain precise forge temperature, etc ...)

---

Eventually, regardless how cool magic is, it is gonna get outpaced by technology. Everyone can use technology. And it ends up more powerfull.

Your post strongly depends on how you interpret magic. If magic is interpreted as something where you can use your own energy and only your own, than yes, it would be logical, but, if you're like me, and you think of magic on other terms, as you sensibly would know how to channel energies from other things to suit your needs in the energy department, you indeed, could cast spells enough to counter a brigaide of guns all day. A mage that knows how to do this could generate a shield that has atomic bonds aligned in a way that it is bulletproof, like bulletproof glass, could channel the energy he needed from the gunpowder explosions themselves, while using his own to wipe out the soliders.

This is why technology and magic rarely mix.

zwei2stein · Feb 17, 2008, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by You can't see me

Your post strongly depends on how you interpret magic. If magic is interpreted as something where you can use your own energy and only your own, than yes, it would be logical, but, if you're like me, and you think of magic on other terms, as you sensibly would know how to channel energies from other things to suit your needs in the energy department, you indeed, could cast spells enough to counter a brigaide of guns all day. A mage that knows how to do this could generate a shield that has atomic bonds aligned in a way that it is bulletproof, like bulletproof glass, could channel the energy he needed from the gunpowder explosions themselves, while using his own to wipe out the soliders.

This is why technology and magic rarely mix.

Yes, it depends ... I dont like you interpretation fo magic because it gives it basically godlike powers to any user.

Even if it is not about your own energy and about chanelling energy from outside sources, can mage really use it?

Not only he would have to expend his own energy to to manipulation (and that limits him), he must choose scale of things on which he does it. Absorning energy from those explosions ... will he work on grand scale and just get kinetic energy from expanging gas? Or will he work so fine that he would absorb thermal energy from said gas ... meaning that he would have to literally work on atomic level ... no human mind can really do it.

(Btw: I have strong supspiction that energy he would have to spend maintaining that buletproof shield would outweight anything he would possibly get from those guns.; In other to stop bullet you need to use at least as much kinetic energy as it had; )

---

Bit even so, such people are rare in fantasy settings. There are only so many Milambers and Eldmisters.

In the end, that mage cannot be on multiple places at once and gumen would slaughter normal infantry in no time. When mage wins battle, Gunmen win war.

---

If both sides have mages, it is no brainer: Whatever side gives their knights muskets instead of swords wins.

Stockholm · Feb 17, 2008, 06:00 PM // 18:00

zwei2stein,
you are trying to mix reality and fantasy.
But there is also magical energy in a fantasy reality and thats what mages use, not kinetic or thermal. And if they did we would have to asume that their minds could handle that, after all it is FANTASY.

And there is no winners in war, only survivors.

dread pirate fargus · Feb 17, 2008, 06:40 PM // 18:40

while we are at it why not lightsabers and big red lasers? hell a spartan laser would make abbadon a lot more fun [/sarcasm]

no thanks.

GloryFox · Feb 17, 2008, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Quote:

posted by Stockholm
No schools in GW

and here I thought my first GW character went to the Pre Searing Academy, Shing Jea Island monastery, or the Istani Sun Spear Training Grounds.

Stockholm · Feb 17, 2008, 06:49 PM // 18:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

and here I thought my first GW character went to the Pre Searing Academy, Shing Jea Island monastery, or the Istani Sun Spear Training Grounds.

Baa, home schooling and nothing about gunpowder at either one.

Lady Yuna · Feb 17, 2008, 06:51 PM // 18:51

Can't ppl just accept that: Guns = total failure in GW? There wouldn't be the point of having skills like Migraine or Crippling Slash if you can just go out and bust everyone you see.

If you wanna shoot someone that bad, my suggestion: Play Halo 3(the others.....they're OK but not as good

).

HuntMaster Avatar · Feb 17, 2008, 07:00 PM // 19:00

No arrows, No staff crystals and NO BULLETS. that would make guns even lamer than they would be.

if guns needed ammo then they should do more damage than any other weapon in the game. 15-50 FTW!